The Xtra Time Podcast- Jerel McNeal

The Xtra Time Podcast by Xavier Sanchez welcomes Jerel McNeal go the show.

McNeal joins the show for a special hour-long conversation. The two talk about McNeal's journey and all the stops along the way as well as his work as a broadcaster and his time as a coach with Hillcrest and Nike Meanstreets. 

As always, follow XtraTimePod on Instagram and Twitter/X.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to the Extra Time Podcast. I'm your host, Xavier Sanchez. I'm excited to be back after a one-week break. Today's guest is Jerome McNeil. He's a professional basketball player that began his career at Hillcrest High School in the south suburbs of Chicago. He would go on to Mark Kett, where he became a Golden Eagle legend and became their all-time top scorer. He continued hooping as a professional with stops in Belgium, Spain, Italy, China, Israel, Germany, and eventually made his way onto an NBA court here in the States. Now a day is he's helping the next generation of hoopers by strengthening his Hillcrest and Marquette roots, as well as the work he's doing with Nike Mean Streets. Sit back, relax, and enjoy Episodes 4's interview of Jarrell McNeil. Welcome to the show, Jarrell McNeil. How are you today, Jarrell?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Doing good, my friend. How about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

I'm doing alright, healing up, uh, excited to get talking. So to sound good. Uh to begin a little bit. Growing up, uh, was basketball your first lob? Did you play any other sports?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Uh, yeah. I mean, I actually started probably playing basketball first, uh, just because it was something I did before I actually got into organized activities to shoot around a lot at parks, uh, some little bit in the backyard as I got older and got a hoop and things like that. But I actually played multiple sports growing up. I re I I did everything. So I'm a I'm a big time sports enthusiast. I played basketball, played football, played baseball, uh, and I pretty much played all of them up until high school is when I stopped. Uh I stopped playing football after my sophomore year of high school. I stopped playing baseball and switched over to track and field uh my freshman year of high school. Uh but yeah, I had experience with multiple sports, man, and I'm uh uh just a firm believer that uh it just makes well-rounded athletes, and I loved and enjoyed playing all of them.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, I'm gonna touch on that well-rounded athlete stuff a little bit later, uh, because uh now more than ever we're seeing a change where too many people think you have to play one sport, but uh you learn a lot by getting a chance to play other sports and being around different groups. Uh so that's cool that you said that. When you were in high school, basketball, so you're a little bit older than my older siblings, so that's a period of basketball in and around the city I don't know a ton about. So when you were playing, what were your big your personal high school matchups? Who were you watching? Uh what what were those games like for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Uh, you're saying when I was in high school, yeah when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Um when you were for we'll say when you were in high school, uh, who who did you like to go up against? Who were you when you were reading of, okay, this is who they're talking about. I want to be better than that guy. Who are those?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I got you. Yeah, I mean, we had we had a ton, and at that time, uh, you know, just the Chicagoland area, not even just Chicagoland, but just the state of Illinois was a major high bear for talent. Um, and we and we and we had a good uh a good group of guys, uh obviously at my school at Hillcrest, but uh man we had some really good players in the state. I was about to say one of my big games or kind of just breaking out moments was uh, you know, at the Proviso West Tournament. And Proviso West Tournament used to be uh, man, probably one of the top tournaments I would imagine in the country, just as far as Christmas tournaments go. Uh used to always be packed, a few with a ton of the coaches. But uh, I got a chance to play against uh Shannon Brown when he was at Proviso East. Uh, I think uh I can't remember the point guard's name. I think it was Charles Charles Lindsay, maybe. I think he went on to like play at Nebraska. And then they also had Big Carwell as well, man. So uh it was so many teams like that. We played Whitney Young as well there with uh with uh Knox and Aunt Harris and uh Dwayne Curtis. Like uh it was it was some great teams and some great competition. Obviously, one of our other arrivals locally was uh Home with Flossmore, and they had Julian Wright and uh Posley and uh Freddie Barnes and XL uh XL as well uh early on, at least before we got a little bit older than those guys graduated. Uh it was just a ton of talent around uh, you know, just the entire state in the Chicagoland area, man. So it was always fun and different, intriguing matchups that you got a chance to run across uh throughout the course of the season.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

That uh recently I heard about the Proviso one being a pretty big deal because you know now you got the tournament at York, the the Pontiac, the Dipper. Uh but it sounds like that Proviso one used to be the it one, bringing in the big schools, the big players.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Uh yeah, absolutely. And uh back then, Proviso West tournament was the show uh it wasn't really even closest term in terms of uh just you know, traffic, uh talent, schools, whatever it may be. Uh it was the best Christmas tournament. Uh, like I said, not just only in the state, but it had to be one of the best in the country. And you got a chance to see uh usually around that time all of the guys uh that you had heard about through the through the through the newspaper. Uh, you know, internet was was was alive and kicking, but it wasn't as prevalent. Like, you know what I mean? It wasn't as common as it was today, where everybody's pretty much walking around with a computer in their in their pocket. Uh, you know what I mean? You got a chance to see all the guys that you had heard about. Uh, you know, I mean, when I got older, Shire was there. I got a, you know what I mean? I got a chance, and I've been knowing John forever. Like I said, Julian, uh, Gordon, why at Evan. We played Shannon Brown there, Whitney Young. You had a phenomenal team that was there. Uh, I want to say uh Pencras and his and his uh team was there. Oh man, we had we had a tour in a talent, man. It was it was it was a really fun time, and it was just a great environment. I mean, you just don't, this is what you don't get in the days of high school basketball anymore. It's like, you know, you would go on Proviso any given night and see Mike Sheshewski, see Tom Ezo, see Bill Self sitting in coach's row at the gym and uh absolutely packed house with fans not just from one particular school, but just in general basketball fans, Chicago basketball fans, and the place used to be electric, uh, and and and it was a tough ticket to get in and out of. But I will always enjoy playing there. Uh it's one of the most prestigious and fun times that I can remember in high school.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

When you were in high school and like growing up, who were some players that you try to model your game? It doesn't necessarily have to be local people, but uh who are those pros you watched?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Uh, I mean, for me growing up, a lot of it was just during the time where the Bulls were were good. So I grew up watching that, kind of fell in love with it from there. Uh and obviously as I went on and got older, I had a heavy influence on that. But I wouldn't say necessarily particular, particularly one player or person that I watched and tried to model my game after. I just always consider myself a student of the game. And one thing uh I tell guys like uh nowadays is kind of missing is that I don't think, you know, guys necessarily watch as much basketball as I did. And I didn't do it at the time because I thought I was smarter than everybody. I did it because I interested I enjoyed watching it. And what I realized years on end was that I was really just, you know, studying for what will end up uh end up becoming uh, you know, essentially my life test in in terms of being a professional player as well, too. But uh, you know, you watch the the the Jordan and Pippin Bulls, the tenacity that they played with, the skill sets that they had, how big and you know, strong and lean and athletic those guys were, but also the way that they just competed and played great uh team basketball, moving on throughout time. You know, they had to run with the Rockets were really good, you know, guys like Hakeem LaGrewan, his footwork, his versatility, uh dude that's leading the league in blocks and steals from the five positions, unbelievable. Uh all the way up into the early 2000s. So, you know, with the Iversons and the flavor that he brought to the game. You know, obviously you got the Kobe and Shaq era, uh, the Pistons early on when they had Larry Brown and probably a starting five group that ended up being like all all-stars almost. So uh, you know, I've been I was fortunate enough to have a lot of different uh styles kind of beings just to choose from. And like I said, I never not necessarily uh modeled myself at the one, but I always tried to just take small nuances and details from uh, you know, from all the great games, things that work, things that didn't work, and more importantly is that those guys are world-class athletes. So you try you try to find and and pick and choose the things that can actually translate to your game. I was a good athlete, but you know, I wasn't 6'7 and uh have 45-inch vertical either. So it's a little bit different from 6'3 and just being a really uh fast and and you know, uh good athlete that can give vertical. So it's a little bit different, but yeah, I pull it a little bit from everything.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Uh yeah, you see those videos nowadays where they'll test like they'll they'll go up to the young athletes when they're high school or even younger, where they're like uh they'll show a face of a a regularly popular athlete to maybe your eye, uh, but to them it's like they have no idea. So uh I think that's pretty true about their they they play the game, but they might not be watching as much as they once did just because there's so many other things they can be doing. You talk about your hide and not being the long uh as tall and the big vertical as many others. But you have you were you you can dunk. Uh I I saw the clips. Uh when was your first dunk? And what was that what was that like for you to be able to you know everyone likes playing basketball, but you talk to anyone, of course they want to make some points, but to say they can dunk is so such a big deal, and and you can't you were and you can.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, I mean, uh I I would imagine I think my for the first time that I like started dunking probably consistently was around eighth grade. Um, and it was it was something that obviously you see from watching the game, especially watching pros uh at the pro level, like you know, it's something that you know you feel like, oh man, all of these dudes can dunk. So at some point you feel like you kinda gotta cross that threshold. And if you wanna be really good and be elite, you gotta figure that out as well, too. But around from seventh to eighth grade, yeah, I call like a really big gross burden was still growing into my frame. Uh, you know, and I ended up, you know, panning out at like around around 6'3 by the end of my freshman year in high school. But eighth grade, I I used to try and and take ten to fifteen minutes after practice every single day and just try to go up and and and stuff the ball. And I tell people this all the time, it's oddly enough as as it was. Like it was one of the ways that I taught myself how to jump off of one leg and two feet. And it's also one of the ways that like I can I can jump on I I can use both legs, like, you know, almost to a point where like a ambidextrous person will I can jump off my right leg the same way I can jump off of my left leg. And it's usually guys are left leg dominant if they're right-handed. Uh but yeah, I used to try it every day after school and just work on that constantly until I consistently started throwing it down. And then by freshman year, uh, you know, I had a probably a couple or a handful of dunks, and and and like as I as I continued to grow and mature and just get stronger and more comfortable in my frame by my next year. Uh you know, I was I was I was a little bit of a jumping jack, so you know, I was flying all over the place trying to dunk everything and then just carried on and got sort of more explosive as as I got through the last two years of my high school career.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

You end up at Marquette. What other schools were in the mix during that time?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Uh it ended up coming down. Like my last couple, uh, obviously Marquette was in the mix. Um, at the time I was I was intrigued by Dayton as well, too. That was around the time when Brian Gregory was the head coach. Uh they recruited me really hard. Uh oddly enough, uh one of the last few as well ended up being in Purdue. Uh and Purdue was like probably one of my front runners. I got a chance to go down and spend some time uh and see campus and everything. They were just in a r really weird spot, and this kind of makes me even feel old, not saying this, but uh like my first year there would have been Matt Painter's first year as the head coach. Uh so they were essentially like in transition from Coach Gene Katie, uh, you know, essentially going into retirement and Matt Painter getting chosen as the successor and taking over. Uh, you know, not to say that it was a bad thing. It was just a uh a different dynamic than I necessarily like kind of knew how it was gonna play out. So that made me a little bit uneasy. But they those are probably my front runners. Illinois was in the mix early on. Uh, but they had a little bit of turnover as well, too. So uh my sister was a U of I grad and alum. So uh, you know, I spent a lot of time growing up on that campus and uh kind of fell in love with the program, especially the year I had Getting Ready to Come Out, where they had uh, you know, Dee Brown, Luther Hidd, Darren Williams, Roger Powell, uh James Augustine. Uh so I was really familiar with the program. Uh but, you know, kind of when uh Bill Self made his exit, and then Bruce Weber came in, uh, that kind of just turned things upside down as well for me, too. Uh I didn't know exactly what direction the program was gonna be heading in, and uh or or how how much they were gonna uh you know essentially recruit me after they kind of made that transition as well, too. But uh, you know, I ended up probably my final list was between like uh Marquette, Dayton, and Purdue. That's what it came down to. Michigan State was in the mix a little bit as well, too.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

You end up at uh Marquette, and you you were pretty much in the mix from the get-go. Uh and it was it was a grind. Like you're pretty consistent, and then that last year you end up almost 20 points per game. You get to be you're the their top scorer. Uh how is that kind of building each year and having those moments?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Uh, I mean, yeah, it was it it it was a process, and um, you know, the the way people view it, looking back on it, and I probably was a bit naive about it myself at the time 'cause I felt like it was a process, but at the same time I started, you know, every single game that I played at Marquette. Uh, which is something that, you know, m most people just don't have the ability to do, especially coming into that freshman year 'cause it's such a big jump. Um you know, I uh I went into it with a different mindset and just trying to do not trying to be who I was in high school and score twenty-five points a game, but just trying to do whatever I needed to do from a basketball standpoint to make sure that uh, you know, the coach felt like he needed me to for the team to have success. Uh and that's what I was able to do. But yeah, it w it was a it was a transition in c in the process. You know, I never averaged on under double figures any of those four years. Uh I I got a bump up each and every year. I play, uh, you know, my my role increased and I got a little bit better in terms of stats uh and and points per game and and you know, as well to go along with rebounds and assists as well too. Uh and that was just kind of my process of playing my freshman year. It was kind of a whirlwind. I was a little bit banged up just from the wind here from uh college basketball, but I averaged like 10 couple rebounds, a couple of assists by sophomore year. Uh I I was almost second or first and second in points per game. Me and Dominique, uh, Steve left. Me and Dominique averaged close to around 15 and 14 points a game. Uh, but I didn't shoot the ball as well myself more year percentage-wise, and then going into my junior year, same thing. I took another step, and by that point I was the leading scorer on the team, and I averaged close to 16 points a game, I want to say. And then, you know, it all culminated my last year. I had a lot more free time, uh, a lot more time to work on my game and just take the next step, even outside of practice, things that I needed to work on to get better at. And uh, you know, we came out guns blazing that last year, along with myself and the emergency. Just Wes had a huge breakout year. He averaged 20 that year as well, too. So we essentially had two 20-point scores on on the same team. Uh Lazar Hayward was on that team. He was a third league scorer. He averaged close to 12 or 13. Dominique averaged close to 11 or 12 points and was just kind of orchestrating the whole offense. Uh, but you know, the the one thing throughout the whole process that stayed consistent for me that I'm most proud of was just on the defensive end. Like my freshman year, I was probably the best defender on the team. Sophomore year, I was the big East defensive player of the year, uh, and so on and so forth. So that a large, a large part of what I was able to do at Marquette offensively was triggered by uh, you know, me playing on the other end of the floor because I was one of the best defenders. So if I was gonna be able to be the best defender on the team, I knew I was gonna have an opportunity to be out there at all. So it all made sense to me in that way.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Uh, you talk about being pretty consistent. You know, it's it's funny in sports, uh right right now we have this battle between um stats and analytics and stuff like that. And in as a the athlete, you you see the process and you see the results. Like, okay, you're doing this in practice, this is what happens in the game. But a lot of the stuff when it comes to stats and what they what the stats heads, there's a process and you see you love the final results, you love to see, oh, you average this, but no one ever gets to fully grasp, oh, there's a process that gets to that n those numbers or why that worked. But one of the things I find really cool when I was taking a look at your game and those numbers you put up, you played 130 games, only 20 of them you had less than 10 points, so it shows the consistency, but really what stuck out was how few you had where you're in the 30 point range. That just shows you how like consistent you are to be able to you you had um your averages were still pretty high considering you never had uh extreme lows and extreme too many extreme highs, which I thought was kind of unique uh to show the consistency level in your game during that time, which I can only imag the life of a pr uh college athlete so so different, uh, and you were going through so many changes, so that's pretty cool to see.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

No, yeah, and it's and that's sort of you know the the the way uh I played the game, uh, essentially. And we used to have a sign in our locker room and Marquette that said uh, you know, the biggest sign of toughness is was was consistency and us being able to essentially know that you're gonna be dependable and you're gonna be able to be uh you know relied upon by you know not just yourself but the guys that are standing next to you as well, too. Oh, and it was always just how I had to view the game, like uh me ending up being the all-time leading scorer when I finished at Marquette was, you know, it it it it wasn't dumb luck, you know what I mean? It was a consistent push. It was a guy who uh, you know, I played through a lot of uh nagging injuries and I even missed a handful of games uh a season or two. Uh but you know, being available, being able to play consistently and being able to play a high level of consistency, uh that's that's there there's more value in that than probably anything in terms of a team aspect. Uh and and like I said, what I did, I did not, you know, just hunting shots, and don't get me wrong, I shot my favorite shots for sure. I was never shy, but you know, um I played alongside three or four other professional guys in some years five or six. So uh being able to do that in in in terms of uh the scheme and the dynamic of our team and how talented those teams were. Like, you know what I mean? Dominique James was right alongside of me almost in every category in the record books. Like, you know, it wasn't a one-man band. Like we we we rewrote the work record books together, uh almost in a sense. And I think more than anything that gets lost in the shuffle, uh, we talk about like my college time and just what we were able to accomplish when we were at Marquette is that like man, we didn't just have one or two guys, we had three or four guys that ended up being all time greats uh at a university.

unknown 22:00

That has a really prestigious history.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

And, you know, none of that is possible without that consistency aspect. Like you said, I didn't have a ton of games where it's like, oh, he's going for 40 this game, but I also wasn't actively out there trying. And I didn't have to. Like, you know what I mean? I had other reliable options next to me. So, you know, it's it's not easy to exert that kind of energy on one end, especially when you're required to guard the first or second best player on the other end as well, too. So that all played into, you know, our team, just how thin of a margin we have for Aaron, how we needed to play. So I'll bet that's one of the things I'm most proud of, man. I was able to do everything I did alongside other really high-level pros and and us not have chemistry issues or jealousy issues. Uh, you know, we we we all got our our our piece of the pie because we played together and we made it about winning at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

That made the the athlete and the team aspect of that experience go a lot smoother. What was Rell's world like as a college student athlete at Marquette? What was that experience? You know, uh it's so different from probably what it it must be like for athletes now, but what's something that you enjoyed during that time being on campus as a student athlete? And was there something that was challenging for you?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Oh, I mean, you you had you had both essentially. Like, you know, obviously everybody deals with the challenges of actually, you know, that first year or so going to college, being away from home, being on your own, uh, and things like that. Uh, but you know, for the most part, you adjust pretty quickly. You figure out the time management aspect of it, uh just kind of how your days look, what you need to be prepared for and mapping things out on your own. And when I kind of got into my groove and my rhythm after my freshman year, I was all good. But like I'm not a guy who was ever like homesick or nothing like that. I was always fine. And one of the cool things about it for me as well was just that uh Marquette was unique as a school because, you know, our campus is in the middle of downtown. Uh, you know, I mean, Milwaukee isn't, you know, a a a huge city like Chicago, but just still having that city feel. Like we most college, university, like camp uh campuses are in like, you know, kind of out in the middle of nowhere in the sticks or in desolate areas where uh, you know, this is right smack dad in the middle of the downtown Milwaukee. And I got I can go a couple miles and go down Wisconsin and get to the beach this way. I can go on this side of town, there's other schools, you know, UWM and uh M A T C all of that type of stuff, just all around as well. Too you got a ton of things to do, great restaurants, uh, you know, good nightlife. Uh you got a beach, you know, I mean, uh it was everything right there. Uh so I mean I really enjoyed my college experience, especially like I said, once I figured out the time management aspect of that. But uh, you know, outside of all the parking tickets and and toes I got, Milwaukee was a phenomenal city. Uh, and it's still like one of my second homes to this day. But I enjoy walking through campus. We got a beautiful campus. Uh, like I said, for about six or seven stretches of block throughout downtown Milwaukee. And like I said, you got everything you could possibly want. Uh, you got the culture, you got the feel. It's not a huge school, so it's like for the most part, uh, you know, you see people, you know people, uh, you run into each other consistently. And then, like I said, you have also the outside people that's actually in the city outside of the market world too that you become accustomed to and spots you like to go, your favorite things to do, what traditions and things like that. We had a lot of them doing my time.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

I want to I I wanna I don't want to hold you too much longer, but I do have some questions still to go. Uh we're pivoting now. You have this great time in college, you you're headed to the pros, you go on drafted, you're in summer league, you're playing all over Belgium, Spain, Italy, China, Israel, Germany. Um during that process, you spent a nice chunk in what was then the D-League. I spoke to many people in the past, um, Max Struess, Charles Matthews, Ben Moore, local guys who played in the G-League, but you played during those end of the D-League years. Uh what do you remember from those times? What kind of grind that was, and the experience that some people might not know about during those D-League years?

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Oh, yeah, man, those were um, and if I'm being honest, probably some of my most fun years were the years that I actually got opportunity to play in the D-League. Uh, and and you know, you kind of alluded to it right there, Xavier, but just I had a uh a wild basketball journey, and not to, like you said, I don't want to take up too much of your time either, but just uh, you know, it's a it's a long drawn-out story. But you know, it started essentially with draft night and just the way things panned out for me. I tell that to a lot of people on my family, like they know now, but still a lot of people never knew because I never talked about it. Going in a draft night, I had a guarantee uh from the Miami Heat. I can't even remember exactly what pick it was, probably around 45 or 46, maybe in the second round. Uh, and and they were like, you know, if you're there, you're available, we're gonna take you. Uh that call came in the night before the draft. Um, and the only kicker with that was that uh they didn't have a roster spot that was gonna be available. So I probably would have did the training camp thing, but more importantly, like they were gonna place me with a team overseas for a year. They were like, we're gonna own your rights and we're gonna bring you back the next year. Um, you know, what ended up happening was me turning it down. And that was a big part of why I ended up going undrafted, because once I got past the 50th pick, my agent was essentially asking people not to pick me because they wanted me to go to a spot essentially where we would be able to choose and determine what was gonna be the best situation and try to make a roster and a team. And that's kind of the the business side uh and the pol uh the political side of uh professional basketball that a lot of people don't necessarily know about. What ends up happening, like that's why I say hindsight is 2020. I end up going overseas my first year anyway for to Belgium, uh Miami, like the following summer. I end up doing summer league, and that's like I think the same year that LeBron did the decision, the initial one, to go to Miami. And what do you know? They need a lot of minimum free agent guys or first year guys to kind of build out the roster. So I tell people all the time. I was probably just one yes away from possibly being an NBA champion as well, too. But that's just the way things work out. Uh, but just based off of that, like I said, the experience in the D-League was really cool to me, uh, because um it gave me opportunity to to and the way I looked at it then, and my dad used to always say this about me, like, you know, you're not gonna let this die like it's always gonna bother you until you get opportunity to make it and try to play an NBA. Uh so you know, I went overseas, I had good years overseas, but I wasn't necessarily satisfied or fulfilled with myself because I felt and I knew that I was good enough to play an NBA and I knew I was one of the best players in the world. So, uh, you know, I took that essentially early years going back and forth and betting on myself uh going to the D-League and thinking, like, you know, I'm gonna show improve, I'm gonna go through the grind and be all in until, you know, one of these NBA teams kind of recognized that this is a guy that could have value at this level. Uh and I was really fortunate. All of the years that I got there, my first year was with the RGV Vipers, uh uh down in Rio Grande and uh first class organization. They were one of the teams that was a direct affiliate uh at the time, which uh it was less of them than a lot less of them than they were a direct affiliate with the Houston Rockets. Uh so I ended up doing like a a short stint with the Rockets in Houston for training camps, so they could allocate me to RGV. Uh it was a great situation, great owner, uh, great management. They ran it, you know, like a really well oil machine, and they were actually using it as a farm system. And also my coach at the time, and again, this is just the benefit of having leagues like this, was uh Chris Finch, who's now the coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves. So, and he was a phenomenal coach. I love working with him. I still, you know, get opportunities to cross paths with him now to this day. Tremendous amount of uh respect for Coach Finch, and he's a great coach, and he taught me a lot. Uh and I got a call up that year. Uh I went to New Orleans. Chris Paul at the time was still in New Orleans. They were still the Hornets at that time, I believe, too, before they switched the name back. Uh he he got a concussion. I got called up to replace him. One game up didn't play. He comes back. Uh, and I ended up not getting extended off the first ten days. Next time I came back, I ended up getting traded to Bakersfield. Um, and so I spent some time out in Bakersfield as well. My last two stints in the G-League. Uh, Will of Waite was the coach there, and Will is now one of the lead assistants, or maybe even the D lead assistant at uh BYU uh under Coach Young. So uh yeah, I I've had opportunity to run into some really great coaches as well, too. That's one of the cool things that you see about this, and even guys who uh who were in other positions throughout the G League programs are doing really well, uh even on the front office side too. Uh, but yeah, pretty much I was fortunate because every year I played also in the G League, I got the opportunity uh to kind of get a call up uh outside of like maybe one year where I came back late after I went to China and only played like a month or two. But all the other years, uh I got called up and my last time I got an opportunity to go to the Phoenix Suns. This is the first year in Bakersfield, it was Utah. Uh I finished up with Utah. They were actually a playoff level team, so they were coming right down to the wire. Uh ended up signing like a two-year nine guarantee with them in the offseason because they wanted to keep me around. Uh, but I got opportunity, you know, crazy deal that came up in China, so I went back to China. Uh, and then I came back after China uh and played the last couple months. And that was the time I got called up uh with Phoenix. And Phoenix was the time where uh coach Hornetsek was the coach, uh, and I actually got a chance to play. Uh and that was just, you know, for me an awesome experience, but more so just the basketball side. Like being able to play with American guys, guys that I knew, guys who I call friends or brothers, man, and going through that process together was really cool. It was almost a bit of a college feel. The only difference now we were all grown men and we all had different set of responsibilities, but we were all there for one common goal, and that was kind of just to live out our dreams.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Two things I do want to come back to the the stuff playing with the sun. Um the way RGV and uh Houston kind of were running at the time, it almost sounds like what the league's trying to get into now is they're using it more of that farm system. You see guys go up and down a lot more than they once did. And kind of like we see it a little bit more in baseball, but that's what the G-League should be. And successful teams seem to do well by doing it that way. And then, um what was the other thing I had on that? Oh, relationships. Uh you talk about all the guys you ran into at that time and how important uh those guys can become for you, and it how it's just even maybe not they might not help you level up, but it's always nice. Uh hey, I tell them ten years ago we ran into each other at an event, someone to talk to, and you never know what leads from that conversation in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

No, absolutely, and though those relationships were a huge part, and that's why I say the the the D League or G League now, uh, that's one of the crazy components of it because it's a bit of a revolving door. And it's guys constantly going in and out, uh, whether it's just call-ups or guys, you know, essentially getting calls from their agents and getting deals overseas that they don't feel like they can turn down. Uh, but I got a chance to play with some some some really good ones. And like I said, build some great relationships. Like my first thing, like we had an unbelievable team. Uh my roommate was uh was uh Mustafa Shkur, who ended up, you know, Mustaff played and played in the NBA for uh a couple of different years, one of the best players uh out at zona, man. Uh great player, great dude, like close friend to this day. Like I say, uh, you know, we had a great experience. Garrett Temple was on that team. Me and GT still talk to this day. Uh Antonio Anderson from Memphis was on that team. Um moving on, Jeff Adrian. I played with Jeff Adrian on that team. Uh Connor Ashley, uh me and John. John Shire got an opportunity to play together in the G League, and this was like after his eye injury, uh, where he was trying to make a comeback, and I had been knowing John for like I got opportunity to play with some really cool dudes, and even out in Bakersfield. Uh uh Ike Ike Diago, uh Steven Dennis, uh Jeremiah Wise. Like, man, I had I had a ton of play with uh opportunity to play with some really great dives. Uh my guy Ronaldo Major. I got a chance to play with my guy Matt Coshwall. These are dudes that are even from Chicago, man, and we really uh just gravitated toward each other. And I had great bonds with so many of them. And like I said, that's kind of the kicker for me, like, and a big part of a reason why I enjoyed my time playing in Guzley guys that I knew or at least that were really relatable to me. It's a little bit of a different vibe than than than the European game, because you know, we're all Americans, you know, everybody kind of knows everybody. So uh, you know, that was one of the really cool and beneficial things about that. Not like again, like you said too, uh like it went a long way to just in terms of like you I saw them kind of turning the knob on what they wanted the league to be uh with the farm system stuff, and you know, having having uh NBA team behind your uh your organization to essentially be the ones running it, I felt like was just it was always the way to go, because it just gave you a tremendous amount of other resources that you could pull on. Obviously, they look there first if they need any um, you know, any any bodies or any players and things like that as well, too. So that's a big part of it, but it also gives you a system to bank on. Like, you know, we were one of the ones when I was in RGV, and this was Daryl Morey was the GM steal of the Rockets. Like, I tell people all the time, and this is just the cool things that you see, like nobody talks about the nose, but we were like the first lab rats for uh, you know, the analytical kind of led basketball stuff. Like we played on the team in RGV and Finch was the coach, and he was like, you know, this is what it is like, but he's like, Do I love it? Not necessarily, but this is coming from the top down. This is what they want to see so that they can essentially get more data, get numbers on it. And it was push the ball and play with pace, uh, you know, on makes or misses. You know, if you if they make it, get it out the net, push it the other way. They wanted three pointers, they wanted shots in the paint, they wanted fouls, they wanted nothing in between. And it was an adjustment for everybody because that wasn't the basketball necessarily that really anybody was playing at the time. And you look up a couple years later, and that's the way that everybody's playing.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

You know what I mean? So it wasn't a lot of things. How quick things can change.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

It was a crazy time, but I tell people we were kind of lab rounds of the system, and it, you know, and it and it worked uh eventually. Like, you know what I mean? Like we had a team that I think we lost in the G League, uh D League finals that year uh to Iowa, but we made it to like the last game of the series in which was a tightly contested game. But we had a great unit. Uh, you know, some of that was based on we had really good players and really good coaching. Uh, but the system actually worked. But it's just it was good to be able to at least draw off a system where you knew that they were gonna try to implement it at the next level when you had an actual actual team. You had the experience look at and see kind of the correlations to how it all works too.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Uh one of the things I thought was cool about your uh playing, getting to the NBA, and then you were coached on um by Jeff Hornstick, another local guy, LT guy, which I thought was pretty cool. When you when you finally stepped on that court for the first time as a player, what was what was going through your head? What can you remember from that night?

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Uh I just remember it because it was um it was a TNT game. Uh and we were playing the we were playing the Warriors, and uh this is, you know, right, you know, this is right in the mid splash brother territory. So like, you know, this is like MVP Steph Curry, Elite Klay Thompson before any injuries, Draymond, all those guys. Um, it was uh, you know, it was it was it was it was a crazy game because I wasn't sure if I was gonna get in again, uh, even though he kind of told me, like, you know, we want to see what you can do. They were they were wand, but they were winding down the end of their season. And this is one of the cool things about it too. They were another team, like they weren't out of playoff contention, so they were still making a push for the playoffs. That was always one of the crazy things to me. It was like all the teams that I got pulled up to my times in the D-League were all like playoff contingent teams. They weren't like just teams that were, you know, trying guys out, throw them out there, let them play 40 minutes. Like, you know, we were out, they were actually actively trying to win games to try to see if they can make a late push to get into the playoffs. And the same thing with Phoenix, but uh I just remember the first time uh Coach Jeff called me. He's like, you know, go. And then I got like, you know, I'm I'm I'm excited, like you ready to pull off my warm-up, run toward the tables, and he like caught me with his arm and was like, hold on, hold on. And I just remember uh I was sitting next to Marcus Thornton, and I knew Marcus for a long time because we went through the pre-draft process together. Me and him, like he was out, he was in street closer. He said next to me, he's like, oh, damn, Jeff pump fate you, huh? I'm like, man, he bogus his head. I just remember sitting there looking at him and laughing, like, yeah, he did pump fate me. I thought he had me, but then he called me like two seconds later and was like, yeah, go ahead. Uh and I just remember getting in the game uh and just just thinking, like, man, uh, you know, this could, this, this is the moment that I kind of have been waiting on the opportunity to kind of show what I could do. Uh, and you know, that's that's how I approached it. Like, you know, I went went in, uh, I think the the the first shot I took, uh, I made a pull-up off the pick and roll, going to my left hand on the left side of the floor. Uh, and only issue was that I was out, I had to guard Steph on the other end. So uh I just remember, you know, trying to be physical with him watching so many nights in the D-League dudes trying to guard him. I had known Steph before too, because he was the same draft class as well. So it was like I was familiar with him. I knew what he was capable of and how good he was he was. But at this point, he was the MVP. So I just remember getting called for like really two two really quick fouls. Uh and I'm sure the referees are looking at me like, who the hell is this dude? Uh, trying to be physical and holding and grabbing the MVP like this, but it was what I did. So uh if nothing nothing else happens, I was gonna compete and try my best and uh and try to uh fulfill the assignment. But uh it was a it was a great night for me. Uh it was a night that I had kind of spent and had, you know, 20 plus years in the making, and that that was the moment that it all culminated for me, and I couldn't have been any happier. Uh, like I said, it made me emotional after just because it was something that uh me and my father had talked about so much, and he had passed away at that time. And that was like one of the things, and one of the big reasons why I even went to the D-League that year is because I wanted to be a little bit closer to the family uh after his death, but I also wanted to essentially do uh uh a hat tip to him or acknowledgement to him because I know it was something that he knew that I wanted, uh, and he wanted me to chase it and fulfill that so that I wouldn't have it on my heart and my conscience going forth for the rest of my life because I probably would have had never let it go. Uh so it was you know it was a great and it was a special night for me.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Yeah, you said uh the culmination, you know, you play in all these different leagues, and it it's a big deal just to play any professional basketball. But coming from America, I'm sure, you know, NBA is that dream, and you made that happen. Uh congrats to you, y'all. Whether you play one game or a thousand games, I think it's like five thousand people uh ever made the league, so that's a huge accomplishment. That's awesome for you. One of the during your basketball career that you've stopped made a stop at was the TBT, which was still pretty new when you got a chance to plan it. Um what did you like about playing in in that uh tournament?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Um it was uh TVT was cool at the time. It was uh like you said, it was a bit newer. Um I thought it was just cool, number one, because of the, you know, they had the they had the grand prize. Uh, but after a couple years of just like watching it on TV, you know, you started to see just the level of players pick up. Uh I started seeing a lot more guys that I knew who were like, you know, kind of sort of in the same position, like fringe NBA guys or high, really, really high level overseas guys, guys that were playing Euro League, guys that were playing in China, uh, guys who had been in the NBA and and, you know, uh were falling out and trying to get back in, whatever it may be. I saw the level of competition pick up. It was just like, you know, guys actively starting to try to build and create teams. And and and it was uh it was really aligned in terms of like um fans as well, too early on. Like they had the thing where like, you know, you had to get a certain amount of votes, you know, if you didn't qualify already uh to to even get into the field sometimes. You couldn't just necessarily take an unknown, remotely unknown team and just be like, all right, we're in. Like you, you know, it was only so many teams they could actually let into the field. So that uh, you know, that just essentially jarred some thinking because we started seeing some of the alumni teams, and you know, uh our Marquette group chats kind of start go start going crazy. Uh because, you know, during that time we had a hell of a run, the talent and guys that came through our program. We had pros that were in the NBA. Like obviously, that wouldn't necessarily be fair. We got to use all of those guys, but uh even just guys that were right there on the cusp. Uh, we had really good high-level guys. So we're like, man, we wanted to, we could definitely put together a team. And uh essentially Joe Chapman and uh Dan Fitzgerald, uh Travis Deaner, those guys were all huge parts of kind of doing it for the first year. And we like, you know, essentially we're gonna do a Marquette alumni team for all the guys that are eligible to play. Uh and, you know, we'll we'll use it almost in a sense of because this is one of the cool things just about the brotherhood that we kind of created or, you know, reignited at Marquette was like that was one of the things that we kind of always did anyway. Like we would find out when guys would go back up to Milwaukee during the summer and we would actively try to all go around the same time and just spend, you know, two two to three days, three or four days almost like just in the gym, working out uh in the daytime, uh using the facilities, you know, to get any type of treatment, using the cold tub and stuff like that. Uh, and then we'll come back and we play in the afternoon. All of us guys were playing high-level basketball anyway. So it was stuff that we were gonna do regardless, where we were, but it also gave us a time to reconnect and uh spend time around each other at nighttime. And, you know what I mean, throughout the day, we would get a couple hotel rooms and guys, you know, room up with each other just like we were back in college again. Some of these guys were guys that I didn't necessarily even play with, but that's how cold uh close and cool the bond was. Like it's a lot of the guys that came after me were guys that we helped crew too. So it was like we knew them. They were like little brothers to us. We were all like family. Then we watched them kind of carry on the tradition after we left, you know. Guys like Jay Crowder and DJO, uh, you know, I mean, those type of guys. Like, I didn't play with them, but you know, Reese did. Maurice was, you know, my best friend who was here. He played with guys I didn't play with, Van, uh Van der Blue, uh Jamil Wilson. You know, we had a ton of guys, and then I got a chance to play with the older guy. So I played with Dan and I knew Travis because Trav was around when I went to Marquette and I was only one year removed, Joe Chapman. Uh it was cool because you had like three, two to three eras of Marquette basketball kind of coming together for one common cause. And like I said, it was all like we knew each other and played together essentially, and we all were familiar with each other because we because we were all watching them, Marquette fans either way. But tournament was awesome, man. It gave us something to do in the summertime, and then like I said, just getting a chance to travel with those guys who go back to like scouting and playing in games and warm-ups. It was a really cool experience.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

It's a testament um of how strong a program is when you have these group chats where guys are coming back, having these gatherings. Uh that shows uh how strong a program c can be and will be. Um now you're in almost like I know you're still out there hooping, giving people buckets, but you're in maybe I don't wanna uh put it on you, but uh your post-career to your new career. I see you're do you're doing a lot more coaching, you're at Hillcrest, you're with Mean Streets, uh you're you're even doing some broadcasting. On the coaching front, how do you um bring in what you learn from the game, both in the in on the court and off-the-court stuff? And is there a message that's like maybe one of your big ones that you're put you're uh sharing with this new group of guys who is in this crazy era of basketball right now? Especially you you've seen it on like the actual in-school, high school level, but out the outside um uh what do you call Spring Leagues, AAU level of basketball as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Yeah, and I mean I think I think uh you know essentially it just it made sense to me. Um I I I consider myself uh a a basketball expert because I've done it at a really high level. I've done it my entire life, and now I've got an opportunity to be on, you know, both sides of it. So the coaching side, the structure side, the recruiting side, uh, the player side, you know, I mean, I I I I can pretty much vouch and and and I've seen it just about all. So uh one of the one of the things that I try to do is uh, you know lead these guys the best I know how and teach them the nuances of the game and things that are gonna translate for them going forward. Uh because a large part of that was how I had success. I was I was somewhat wise beyond my years, but it also came again, like I said earlier in the conversation, for me being a basketball junkie and essentially studying the game without knowing I was studying it because I watched so much of it. And a lot like I said, I think that's the thing that's missing now because a lot of these guys miss out on what their next step or what their role may look like because they don't necessarily watch enough. And I ain't trying to say that to take shots at the younger generation. I just know the way social media and things work, though, they watch a lot more clips than actual games. And even with that, when they do watch actual games, they watch it for more so entertainment than they do the why. Um and that's I can't unprogram my brain at this juncture of my life to see the why and everything. Like, you know, I'm I'm not looking at the guy who's out here dribbling at the top of the key. I'm looking at what's going on on the weak side, what the coverage is, uh what the rotations are gonna be, and essentially who they're allowing or living with to shoe shots from the perimeter. Like, you know what I mean? It's just a different way.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

In the clip, you just see you just see yeah, in the clip you just see that final three or that dunk, but you don't see how how was the space created to get that? What was the first 10 to 15 seconds prior to that to get things rolling?

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Yeah, one one 100%, exactly. And and that's a big part of it, where like I said, I try to teach uh, you know, and I this is one of the phrases I use now, like for my guys who I coach, and it's like I try to tell them, like, you know, I'm not trying to help you or make you into a robot. I want you to be a basketball player. And what I consider as a basketball player is a guy that's well-rounded. Um, he understands concepts, they understand spacing, uh, you know, and then you add in the skill aspect of that along with the competitive and competition aspect of that. That's when you get a basketball player, not a guy who just can do one thing. And I think that's one of the things that our game is lacking nowadays. Like you got so many guys now, and it's not say that anything's wrong with it, but you got guys that are specialists now. When I was growing up and watching basketball, I truly you truly knew and believed that those guys out there, any guy out there could go for a twenty on any given night because they were all high level basketball players. Now you got guys who are there and they may have a ten year career, but they can only do one thing. Like you can take them into a different setting where if they're not surrounded by necessarily great players, they don't look special. Um, you know, and it's not their fault, it's how the game is being teached. Like now you're looking for guys that fulfill needs. But I like to make well-rounded basketball players, guys that understand the game, guys that can do multiple parts of the game. That's not to necessarily say that everybody's gonna be able to do everything, but you should try to check off as many boxes if you want to be a good player. Uh uh, you know, that you that you possibly can. But just me and uh building on from that, like I said, uh now I've I've I've coached now at the high school level. I've been back coaching with Hillcrest since I retired. Uh I've been the 17U coach uh for Mean Street for the last few years, and I was an assistant a couple years before that, and I'm helping them uh just in a multitude of aspects as well with the program from the player development side to the scheduling side and other things like that, and uh recruiting as well. Uh but you know it's giving me an opportunity, like I said, as well, to get back to the game and uh and try to teach these guys because at the end of the day, like I said, I could I can relate to them because I've done everything that they've done and I've been in their shoes. But now uh as time goes on, it's elements to the game that they have to deal with that we didn't have to deal with. So in the same aspect of that, um, you know, I'm not a guy who's gonna be the old man and just like I'm stuck in my ways, it's gotta be this way. No, things change, the game evolves, and the rules change, and what's okay and what's not okay evolves as well, too. The best thing I can do is educate myself, which I've had a great opportunity to do with the space that I'm in and the opportunities that I have, and continue to educate myself and know these things they're dealing with, so I can be better equipped to help them navigate the situations that they're gonna have to deal with in, you know, 2026. Um, you know, from the NIL stuff to the aging stuff, uh, to the amount of money that's flowing around to, you know, the transfer portal stuff. Like, it's all stuff that didn't exist when I played. So I would be foolish to sit there and be like, no, well, this, this, you know, it it doesn't solve anything by me sitting there saying it shouldn't be like this because this is what it is. So essentially, this is what it is. Let me understand and figure out the rules and let me see what's working best through trial and error with other guys and pay attention to my surroundings. And I've got a great opportunity to do that because you mentioned as well too uh I've been able to do so much on the media side in terms of being a college basketball analyst uh from calling games as well to work out do being a contributor on the field of 68 and you know, doing live shows. I've been to the last two Final Fours and things like that. So, like now just being in that space, I realize it and I understand it uh a lot more. So I'm able to come back and give my wisdom and my knowledge so that my players now who are getting ready to embark on that journey can have a much better experience or try to save them from stepping in potholes that they don't necessarily see because they didn't know any better.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Yeah, I think with you, as you just mentioned, uh being so like you love the game so much, you're learning the ins and outs, and even just looking back on your career, you've played in so many different kinds of styles and eras, from checking in on the newspaper to when you're in the TBT talking about I I do remember seeing those voting polls. Uh and now you're post post-COVID world uh battling the NIL and understanding like this is what it is. Uh I want I want to be able to help these guys, but we also gotta protect them too and not get taken advantage. And you're trying to show uh in the coaching world how to become a trusted figure and with so many voices, it's it's a very scary world. You you want I I think this is what you always want the athletes to get their own, but you also don't want them to be manipulated and harmed in in these settings.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

So 100% a lot's gonna change.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

I think it's for the good. There's gonna be probably some regulations at some point coming, but it should still be very more pro-athlete as we move forward, which I think is gonna be the case. I got these last two for you. Uh you've been great, and I I thank you so much. This next one, uh, you kind of touched on being able to go back to Marquette. Uh, this past uh winter, you had this time where you got to go back, a really special time for you. You saw your uh your jersey go into the rafters. What was that uh moment like to be back on campus with some of your brothers, your teammates, and see all another culmination of your work uh coming to light to it? Uh people who uh you're showing a new generation as well, what you accomplished there.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Yeah, um I mean, even still to this day, uh it's that that opportunity and getting an opportunity to be honored uh in in that way is something that I haven't necessarily still found the words for uh just to express uh, you know, my my gratitude. But uh man, it was uh it was a really special, special weekend for me, uh for my family as well, too. Uh and and and again, you kind of just hit it on the head. Um there's not a whole lot of things in life that I love and care about more than this game, and I mean that just in totality, uh from all levels, and the the gratitude and appreciation I have for it and the respect I have for it because it's you know, it's changed my life, it's changed my family life and probably gen generations of my family's life. So um I have a huge appreciation for that and to be honored uh in that way by my alma mater. Uh it it was it was a really special day for me. And um it's it it was something that you you don't necessarily think about while you're going through it. Uh, but I also know the time, um the sacrifice, the blood, sweat and tears that I had to put in to to get to that point and that I had to put in and that I went through uh during my time at Markhead and how I feel about that place and how I feel about the people that worked there, how I feel about the teachers, how I feel about uh my teammates that I played with there. Um uh I I would genuinely do anything, uh just about anything for all of them. Uh and and that's the way that I carried out my business that uh when I was there. It was uh it was all gas, no break. So uh I wasn't gonna be out work for anything, and that's that's what I gave them. I gave them everything that I had. Uh and and for them to do that for me and get an opportunity to be there um, you know, with my family and my wife, my daughter, and uh see them, you know, unveil a a jersey with McNeil and my number on it. That's at the that that's at the back, that's at the top of the uh the firewall form. Getting alongside some other really great. Um some some other really great historical figures and pillars in our game of basketball. Um it's uh it's a surreal feeling. And it's like I said, it's something I'll never take for granted. Uh I still can't necessarily put into words what it means to me. Uh, but yeah, now now, you know, you just had that point where people send me pictures there at Bucks games and they're like, dude, this is crazy. Like your number, your number is uh, you know, interrupted forever. So that's really uh that's that that's really just special. And like I said, that's another one of those culmination points. Uh because, you know, as much love as I have for this game and as hard as I worked on all of this stuff, uh, you know, it it it was for moments like this. And you don't necessarily ever know if you're gonna get a moment like this, but when you do, uh, you know, you damn sure better be appreciative of it. So that's how I feel. Uh I'm forever grateful uh to be etched in alongside on the history books of however many we got, other jerseys we got up there. It's not many, uh, but you know, it's a couple more than it was over the last few years.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Yeah, such a I I love hearing all the success of all the Chicago guys and Chicagoland guys make it and make a name for themselves, big and small. Uh, you've certainly cemented yourself in the history books. What's next for you? How do you keep this going? What what what are some what what other dreams do you have?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Uh I don't know. I think that's that's something uh I'll say is uh I don't know, a bit of uh it's a bit of a loaded question, but uh right now I'm uh I'm I'm I'm happy.

unknown 1:02:22

Um, you know, my I'm I'm I've got a family now, I'm growing my family.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Uh and I know that uh at least I'm I'm certain that I want to do, continue to do something uh that's that's within the space that I'm in, um, which is essentially the basketball world. Uh now whether that be coaching or something in the media, something that's um, you know, in the front office side or scouting side or whatever it may be, uh I'm probably not a hundred percent sure on that yet. Uh, but at the same time I'm willing and uh I'm respectful for all of the different crafts. And like I said, I've had I've been fortunate enough just to be in a situation where I can get experience or a little bit of a taste or a touch of all of those different things. Uh just because of what I the opportunities I've been allotted in this game and you know the work that I've put in and people putting me and giving me opportunities to work alongside of them as well too. Uh I know I want to do something in the basketball space for sure, and I'm and I also know that it's something that I'm not gonna do uh, you know, forever. So right now I I still got a little bit of youth left on my side. I kinda again want to just go pedal to the floor and uh and kind of just see where everything's everything takes me. But anything that I can be involved in, I'm especially passionate just about uh, you know, I love the the level that I work at because I feel like I have a uh I can have I have the ability to have a greater impact uh sometimes with these younger kids. Um, you know, I'm not necessarily embarking out trying to be the next coach of the Los Angeles uh Los Angeles Lakers, you know what I mean? Uh I think it's great value in making sure that some of these next great players stay on the right path and get the opportunities that I got uh so that we can get the next, you know, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade type players. Um, you know, that that that's what I think about for every one of those guys that we see. Um, you know, it's 10 to 20 more who are probably right there and just as good and just as talented than me got tripped up or didn't get a lot of the same opportunities and got overlooked. So I'm passionate about the space that I'm in and continue to help in this facet uh for the time being, but sky's the limit going forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

You know, congrats on the family, congrats on all your accolades. Many years of good luck. I'll be tuned in to Mean Streets this rest of the way. Uh enjoy the rest of your day and summer and talk soon. Thanks, Jorel.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

I appreciate you again, Xavier, man. It was a pleasure talking with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:08

Wow, a full hour on that one. Thank you to Jarel for that interview and for being a big supporter of the work I do over these last many years, really. While I usually keep them around 30 minutes, when you have someone just as engaged and interested in the discussion, you keep the conversation going. I enjoyed hearing about this journey, and I'm glad to share with all of you. That's a wrap for this one. Don't forget to stay up to date by following me or the Extra Time Podcast across all and most social media. Once again, I'm Xavier Sanchez, and thank you for listening to the Extra Time Podcast.